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Posted by u/midwest_lifter·

Are Israetel's Volume Landmarks in Conflict with Morton's 2018 Meta-Analysis?

TL;DR: Trying to reconcile Israetel's volume landmarks (10-25 sets) with Morton's 2018 meta (10-15 sets). Are we overthinking volume vs. practical training approaches?

I've been diving deep into the research lately and keep getting caught up in this interesting (and honestly a bit frustrating) debate about volume landmarks from Mike Israetel and the findings from Morton et al.'s 2018 meta-analysis. It feels like we're hitting a wall trying to reconcile their approaches, and I wanted to unpack this with you all!

So, Israetel's work suggests some solid volume landmarks, emphasizing that for hypertrophy, the minimum effective volume (MEV) is about 10 sets per muscle group per week, while maximum adaptive volume (MAV) sits around 20-25 sets. In contrast, Morton's meta-analysis, which reviewed multiple studies, concluded that muscle growth doesn't seem to drastically differ between lower and higher volumes as long as you're doing at least some work. In fact, they showed that around 10-15 sets might be sufficient for most people to achieve growth.

The issue I see here is the potential mismatch in recommendations. For those of us who've been lifting for a decade, the idea that 10 sets could be all we need is a bit underwhelming, right? I mean, if you've been training hard, surely pushing toward that 20 set mark can't be all bad. But then again, is it really worth it to ramp up the volume and risk overtraining? Morton's findings imply we might be overcomplicating things by piling on extra sets without significant returns.

Both camps seem to have their merits. Israetel's landmarks give a structured approach to ensure we're not leaving gains on the table, while Morton's meta reminds us to stick to the basics and be smart about our recovery. The practicality is what matters here, most of us don't have the time or energy to do 25 sets per muscle group while also managing our life outside the gym. So how do we take the best of both worlds? I'm curious what others think about this clash of insights. Are we caught in the weeds or is there a middle ground that can actually make sense in our training? Would love to hear your thoughts and experiences with this!

18 comments

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u/momof3_gains·

Honestly, I just squeeze in workouts whenever I can between mom life. Sometimes that means hitting 10 sets and calling it a day. I think doing something is better than stressing over the perfect volume

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u/squat_to_pizza·

I totally get that! It can feel frustrating when you've been pushing hard and then hear that 10 sets might be enough. As a powerlifter, I focus more on intensity, but I still believe in the principle of progressive overload. If you're feeling it and making PRs, maybe those extra sets are worth it. Just listen to your body and find what works for you.

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u/cuttingseason_2024·

OMG, I thought I was the only one who felt like this! As a beginner, I'm just trying to figure out if I'm doing too much or too little. I've been aiming for 12-15 sets, but now I'm like, am I even doing it right? So confused!

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u/never_skiplegday99·

Leg day is life! But fr, if you're hitting your quads, hamstrings, and glutes hard, you might not need more than 10 sets. Just give your legs time to recover, my dude. No one wants to be a noodle.

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u/caffeine_and_lifting·

Lowkey, caffeine helps me push through those tough volume days. Just gotta keep it chill on the coffee intake! Don't wanna crash before leg day, haha.

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u/runningfromcardio·

I'm just here like, 10 sets? I mean, can I still eat pizza? Because that's my main focus right now. I just don't get how people can lift so much and not eat carbs. Where's the fun in that?

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u/bro_split_bro_420·

FLEX ON EM WITH THOSE BICEPS! Seriously tho, I feel like people are too focused on volume instead of quality. If you're hitting your RPE right and getting that muscle to failure, does it really matter if you do 10 or 20 sets? More isn't always better, bro.

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u/midwest_lifter·

I think the volume debate often overlooks the individual aspect of training. What works for one person might not work for another. Some lifters thrive on higher volume, while others find success with lower. Let's just be cautious about dogma in fitness.

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u/creatine_supremacy·

This might sound wild, but maybe try combining both approaches? Use Israetel's volume as a baseline and adjust based on how you feel and your recovery. Supplement with creatine and a solid protein intake, and you should see some gains regardless. #science.

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u/depressedlifter·

Man, I've been stuck in a rut lately, and these conflicting studies are just adding to the confusion. I mean, after five years of lifting, I'm constantly trying to figure out if I'm pushing too hard or not hard enough. Morton's findings are kind of a relief since I've been stressing about volume, but Israetel's landmarks make me feel like I need to do more. Like, is 10 sets really all I need to grow? That's kinda hard to believe.

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u/macrocounter98·

Honestly, when I track my workouts, I see better results. I do 3-4 exercises per muscle group and aim for about 3-4 sets. It balances out, and I'm not crushed at the end. I guess it's about finding that sweet spot with volume and intensity.

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u/proteinpancakes22·

So much info out there can be overwhelming, but I think experimenting with different volumes is key. I like to switch things up between higher volume and lower volume phases. Keeps things interesting and helps me stay motivated.

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u/chickenncarrots·

I think the most important thing here is tracking what works for you. Nutrition plays a huge role too. For me, 10 sets feel good, but I also make sure I'm getting my protein in, like chicken breast or Greek yogurt post-workout. Having a solid routine with my nutrition has really helped.

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u/carbphobia·

I'm a bit skeptical about both camps honestly. Israetel's volume guidelines seem a bit prescriptive for someone who has been lifting for years. But Morton's meta-analysis oversimplifies growth too. There are so many variables in training like individual recovery, muscle fiber type, and experience level. Just throwing out numbers can be misleading. Why are we not considering the quality of those sets? Are we really comparing apples to apples when some people recover faster than others?

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u/squatandgobro·

Facts. It's all about that pump! Sometimes I feel like the more sets I do, the more I get that sweet, sweet pump. So maybe more isn't bad if it feels good, right? Just gotta be careful with overtraining!

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u/depressedlifter·

For real tho, maybe I should just focus on what feels good. If I'm feeling strong and recovering well, I'll keep going. If not, I can adjust! Gotta find that balance.

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u/6footdadbod·

No cap, every time I hear '10 sets', I want to just hit that bench for a few extra. It's like, where's the fun if I'm not feeling the burn? Just gotta balance it out with rest days. More sets = more gains, right?

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u/nurseswholift·

As a nurse who lifts, I can say that overtraining is a real concern. We can't always just push harder; recovery matters just as much. Finding your personal MEV might be the best way to go. Listen to your body, and don't forget to sleep!

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