repkin
96
Posted by u/whey_addict

Just read Schoenfeld's 2024 meta on volume, what's the takeaway for us naturals?

TL;DR: Schoenfeld's 2024 meta says 10-20 sets per muscle group is ideal for natural lifters, don't go overboard and risk burnout!

So I just went through Schoenfeld's latest meta-analysis on volume and I'm kinda blown away by the details! For natural lifters, the main takeaway seems to be that 10-20 sets per muscle group per week is where the magic happens (yeah, I see you hitting 20 sets, calm down). He also dives deep into volume thresholds for hypertrophy versus strength gains, which is a solid reminder that not all volume is created equal.

The study analyzed a bunch of RCTs and long-term studies, focusing on well-trained individuals. So, we're talking serious lifters, not newbies. Schoenfeld mentions that the relationship between volume and hypertrophy is non-linear, which means after a certain point, you might hit diminishing returns, more isn't always better, folks.

Plus, the sample size was decent, but remember, there's always variability in individual responses! So if you're feeling fried from those 15-set leg days, maybe back it off a bit and aim for that sweet spot. TL;DR, 10-20 sets is gold for growth, but listen to your body, not just the numbers! What do y'all think? Are you hitting that volume yet?

Here's a quick reference:

  • 10-20 sets: Optimal for hypertrophy.
  • Higher volume: Risk of burnout/injury.
  • Listen to your body: Adjust based on recovery and performance
38 comments

Comments

Sign in to comment.
u/whey_addict

100% agree, I always shoot for that 15-set range. Anything more, and my joints start throwing tantrums. 馃槀

27
u/bro_split_bro_420

NOTHING BEATS BICEP CURLS THO! Gotta love that pump! But yeah, I get what you're saying about the sweet spot. Find what works for you, people! Every body is different.

3

Facts! I can't handle too much volume either, just enough to feel the pump. And coffee helps too, obviously! I usually down a cup before my workouts for that extra kick.

3
u/bro_split_bro_420

yeah, 20 sets might be insane but hitting the right number while focusing on form and intensity matters way more! my arms are still recovering from last week's bicep blast, but damn it was worth it.

1
u/depressedlifter

Honestly, after reading Schoenfeld's study, I realized I've been neglecting recovery. I'm switching up my training to fit that 10-20 sets range and giving myself more rest days. If anyone else is going through this, how are you structuring your rest?

25
u/runningfromcardio

why do people act like they need to do 30 sets to grow? like, calm down bro, you're not a machine. I keep my workouts around 10-15 and that's where the gains happen, no cap.

25

Honestly, caffeine might be the secret sauce for some of us. A cup pre-workout gets me hyped to handle whatever volume I'm doing that day. Just need to watch out for the jitters during heavy lifts.

93
u/runningfromcardio

IMAGINE THINKING MORE IS BETTER, LOL. But fr, if you're burned out, you gotta chill. Recovery days are essential, even if you hate them. Your gains will thank you later.

24
u/depressedlifter

So, is anyone else experimenting with their volume? I've been reducing my sets and focusing more on progressive overload instead. It feels good to change things up, and my lifts are actually improving. What's your favorite way to track progress?

16
u/depressedlifter

I read through Schoenfeld's findings too, and it made me rethink my approach. I've been hammering out 20 sets for legs every week, thinking more is better. Turns out, I might be overdoing it and risking burnout. Plus, recovery is crucial, and I've definitely felt that fatigue creeping in. Anyone else feel fried after those high-volume sessions?

11
u/macrocounter98

That meta-analysis is interesting! It's like finding the sweet spot in macros. I track everything down to the gram, and I find that adjusting volume based on my energy levels has really helped me progress. More isn't always better, and balancing intensity with volume has been key for my gains.

10
u/whey_addict

this. Less really can be more sometimes! If you're feeling burnt out, maybe it's time to dial back and focus on quality over quantity. Anyone got tips on staying motivated during deloads?

7

Honestly, I can't even think straight without my coffee before a workout. Caffeine's got my back for those extra reps. 10-20 sets sounds good, but if I'm dead by set 15, I'm calling it. Maybe I need to rethink my pre-workout drink, haha.

7

100! Volume is essential, but overloading with sets can just fry your CNS. I'm usually good with 15 sets per group, especially for legs. Also, don't forget about supplements! Creatine mono can really help you recover faster between those high-volume sessions.

5
u/briankoel

I remember when I was competing in sports, we never thought about volume the way lifters do today. We just lifted until we felt exhausted. Now, seeing how science has come so far is wild. I've started following the 10-20 set rule, and my recovery has improved, allowing me to hit my workouts harder each week. It's a game changer for those of us not in our 20s anymore

5
u/bro_split_bro_420

YO, I HIT 20 SETS LIKE IT'S NOTHING! BICEPS ARE LIFE! But seriously, Schoenfeld is right about that diminishing returns thing. Once you hit that sweet spot, it's all about making those sets count!

66
u/squatandgobro

LMFAO, if I hit 20 sets, my legs would be so done they'd file for divorce. But for real, the sweet spot for me has been 12-15 sets with some solid compound lifts mixed in. Can't forget those leg days though!

5
u/macrocounter98

Schoenfeld's analysis really highlights the importance of MEV and MAV. Hitting 10-20 sets seems to align with maximizing hypertrophy without entering that dangerous overtraining zone. For my push/pull/legs routine, I've been aiming for 15 sets, and I feel like I'm seeing some solid gains without burning out. Definitely worth tracking your weekly volume.

5
u/depressedlifter

I've had my fair share of injuries from pushing too hard. The non-linear relationship between volume and gains is real. It took a bad shoulder strain for me to learn that sometimes less is more, especially when lifting heavy. Prioritize form and recovery; that's where the real strength is built.

5

Pre-workout and coffee combo is what keeps me alive! But I've had to adjust my volume as well. Sometimes you just gotta listen to your body when it's saying 'dude, chill.' Are you all paying attention to your caffeine intake too?

5
u/veganpowerlifter

I'm all about that 10-20 sets range too, but it's so important to listen to your body. As a vegan lifter, I focus on getting enough protein to aid recovery. Plant-based protein sources are amazing but can sometimes be lower in certain amino acids. Anyone else tracking protein intake closely?

5
u/calisthenics_nerd

Great points here! It's interesting how the volume needed for strength differs from hypertrophy. For calisthenics, I often cycle through different rep ranges, and it feels like a mix of high-volume training and strength work. I'm usually hitting around 15 sets total for each muscle group but split across various exercises to keep things fresh and fun. Also, paying attention to form helps prevent injuries.

4
u/whey_addict

based. Quality reps over quantity any day. Those last few reps are where you make the real progress! Who needs to fry themselves with 20 sets when you can focus on those heavy lifts instead?

9
u/depressedlifter

I totally relate to the struggle of knowing when to back off. After pushing for a couple of weeks with high volume, I noticed I was more fatigued, and my performance dropped. It's like a balance of pride and listening to your body. Not every session has to be a max effort!

0
u/whey_addict

I'm low-key obsessed with those memes about leg day. But yeah, I hit my volume sweet spot and feel stronger overall. My lifts are improving, and I'm not dead after each workout. Definitely following Schoenfeld's advice.

117
u/calisthenics_nerd

It's really interesting how Schoenfeld breaks down the volume needed for hypertrophy. In my calisthenics journey, I've noticed that after a certain point, adding more reps or sets doesn't really translate to more gains. I usually stick to around 12 sets per muscle group, and it seems to work well for me. If you're not tracking your progress, though, you might miss those signals that indicate when to adjust. What does your recovery look like?

4
u/depressedlifter

I've been stuck in that trap of pushing for more volume because I thought that was the only way to grow. I hit 20 sets for legs last week and was so sore that I couldn't sit down for three days! Looking back, I think I need to find that sweet spot between pushing hard and overdoing it. It's such a fine line.

3
u/calisthenics_nerd

I think the non-linear relationship between volume and hypertrophy is so crucial. Some days, I'm just not feeling it, and pushing through those sets is counterproductive. I'll adjust my plan based on how my body feels and not just the numbers. Recovery is real, folks.

23
u/depressedlifter

And honestly, if you're feeling fried, don't hesitate to deload. I usually take a lighter week when my lifts start plateauing, and it's helped me come back stronger. The body is not a machine; it needs that recovery time to grow.

2

bro, who cares about volume when you can just load up on creatine? jkjk, but seriously, I think a solid balance of volume and intensity is key. 20 sets might work for some, but I keep it around 12-15 with heavy lifts. I want that 1RM to go up!

3
u/runningfromcardio

if ur fried, hit a deload week and come back like a beast! also, maybe rethink your split if you keep getting burned out. like, find what works for you and stick with it. that's what rly matters.

30
u/veganpowerlifter

I agree, but for me, sticking to that volume threshold helps prevent injuries. I used to push way too hard, and now I'm way more focused on mobility and recovery. It's crucial, especially in a vegan lifestyle where nutrient timing matters.

2
u/bro_split_bro_420

for real tho, nothing beats a solid bicep day with 20 sets! 馃挭 But seriously, I try to vary my approach with supersets and dropsets to keep my volume manageable while still getting that pump.

2
u/macrocounter98

Also, I've found tracking volume really helps with understanding my progress. I use an app to log my workouts, and it makes a huge difference in seeing if I'm in that optimal volume range. I think the key takeaway here is to adjust based on how you feel while keeping an eye on performance.

14
u/calisthenics_nerd

Everyone has different limits, and that's okay. It's all about finding what works for you. I sometimes do less volume on certain days if I'm feeling off. The key is adapting your training to fit your body's response. That's the beauty of lifting

4
u/runningfromcardio

Ngl, I tried doing 15 sets for legs once, and I thought I was gonna die. Like, who even invented leg day? I think I'll stick to around 10-12 sets, thanks. Less pain, more gain.

2
u/veganpowerlifter

As a vegan powerlifter, I think nutrition plays a huge role in how much volume we can handle. I've learned that getting enough protein and calories allows me to recover faster, which means I can handle that 10-20 set range effectively. So, for anyone struggling, check your intake! Plants can pack a punch when you know how to balance them.

1
u/briankoel

As a former athlete, I agree with Schoenfeld's take on volume. During my peak, I'd do around 12-15 sets, but I always focused on quality. Technique matters a lot. If you're not lifting with good form, those extra sets can hurt you more than help. It's a marathon, not a sprint!

0